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#1 2007-06-25 15:04:43

Mixed
Member
From: Bucharest
Registered: 2006-06-24
Posts: 26
Website

Tiffs with mask (alpha channel)

Hi,

I've noticed that I cannot use tiff images that have alpha channel with APP. That's too sad, because it can really be very usefull.
So I was wondering when this will be available... will this feature be available? wink

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#2 2007-06-25 16:11:27

hankkarl
Member
From: Connecticut, USA
Registered: 2006-02-21
Posts: 1614
Website

Re: Tiffs with mask (alpha channel)

Yes, but how should it work?  Should APP use the alpha channel to determine what not to blend?  (clouds, waves, etc) but still output those pixels in the render stage, or should it just output all the pixels?

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#3 2007-06-25 22:46:52

Mixed
Member
From: Bucharest
Registered: 2006-06-24
Posts: 26
Website

Re: Tiffs with mask (alpha channel)

Yes the APP should use the alpha channel to determine what pixels not to blend. This way I can mask portions of the image like the tripod or my feet (if I'm shooting handheld) and I can be sure that those masked portions of my images will not go to blend.
If I can't mask some parts of my images then the APP blending is not very usefull and I must render layers and then mask them and blend again with other software. This is a step I'd like to avoid.

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#4 2007-06-26 09:08:52

GURL
Member
From: Grenoble
Registered: 2005-12-06
Posts: 2662

Re: Tiffs with mask (alpha channel)

Mixed wrote:

[..] I must render layers and then mask them and blend again with other software. This is a step I'd like to avoid.

Including into APP a large amount of features from Photoshop (or any other image editor) would not be useless but this would be time consuming both for Alexandre's crew and for APP users (lot of tools to learn again.)

It looks like the Layer Editor having a visible pane and more features in the new APP version is an interesting step toward an efficient solution for the difficult issue you are pointing at: the larger the panorama is (pixel size and file size) the more one would like to avoid a final image editor step, this don't make corresponding tools implementation easy...

Last edited by GURL (2007-06-26 09:08:10)

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#5 2007-06-26 12:26:27

Mixed
Member
From: Bucharest
Registered: 2006-06-24
Posts: 26
Website

Re: Tiffs with mask (alpha channel)

GURL wrote:

Including into APP a large amount of features from Photoshop (or any other image editor) would not be useless but this would be time consuming both for Alexandre's crew and for APP users (lot of tools to learn again.)

Sorry GURL, but you misunderstood me. I'm not saying that APP should include features of Photoshop! No way!
I'm just saying that supporting tiffs with alpha channel would be great! PTGui does that, Realviz Stitcher has a tool called Stencil, Hugin also supports alpha channels...

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#6 2007-06-26 15:21:34

hankkarl
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From: Connecticut, USA
Registered: 2006-02-21
Posts: 1614
Website

Re: Tiffs with mask (alpha channel)

And APP supports alpha channel, at least on output smile

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#7 2007-06-26 17:21:45

ThomasPF
Member
Registered: 2007-05-16
Posts: 176

Re: Tiffs with mask (alpha channel)

but it can not open files containing an alpha channel

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#8 2007-06-30 12:47:31

Mixed
Member
From: Bucharest
Registered: 2006-06-24
Posts: 26
Website

Re: Tiffs with mask (alpha channel)

Alexandre, sorry to insist but do you have any thoughts about this? wink

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#9 2007-06-30 15:24:44

AlexandreJ
Absolute beginner
From: Challes les eaux, France
Registered: 2005-11-14
Posts: 5174
Website

Re: Tiffs with mask (alpha channel)

We will make a quick fix to support alpha in input. At least for the blending stage to remove people. It's more complicated to prevent CP creation on transparent zone, but should be possible too.

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#10 2007-07-01 14:58:11

Mixed
Member
From: Bucharest
Registered: 2006-06-24
Posts: 26
Website

Re: Tiffs with mask (alpha channel)

Thank you. smile
I personally need alpha support for the blending stage, to exclude people or tripod parts from the image.

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#11 2007-08-03 10:54:44

Mixed
Member
From: Bucharest
Registered: 2006-06-24
Posts: 26
Website

Re: Tiffs with mask (alpha channel)

AlexandreJ wrote:

We will make a quick fix to support alpha in input. At least for the blending stage to remove people. It's more complicated to prevent CP creation on transparent zone, but should be possible too.

Alexandre,
Does APP 1.4.0 A3 have this quick fix to support alpha in input, now?wink

Last edited by Mixed (2007-08-03 10:55:06)

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#12 2007-08-30 14:28:34

AlexandreJ
Absolute beginner
From: Challes les eaux, France
Registered: 2005-11-14
Posts: 5174
Website

Re: Tiffs with mask (alpha channel)

Done

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#13 2007-08-30 15:03:18

beeloba
Member
Registered: 2006-08-18
Posts: 2735

Re: Tiffs with mask (alpha channel)

SUPER !! Génial !! merci Alex smile

This is going to help a lot the workflow process…

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#14 2007-08-30 17:53:34

hankkarl
Member
From: Connecticut, USA
Registered: 2006-02-21
Posts: 1614
Website

Re: Tiffs with mask (alpha channel)

Great!  so what is the support?

1. ignore alpha channel
2. use alpha channel for blending
3. use alpha channel for CP creation
4. both 3 and 3

Your post above says "use alpha channel for blending to remove people" but that was a month ago, and things change.  smile

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#15 2007-08-30 18:08:37

AlexandreJ
Absolute beginner
From: Challes les eaux, France
Registered: 2005-11-14
Posts: 5174
Website

Re: Tiffs with mask (alpha channel)

alpha is used to prevent CP in transparent zone
alpha is used during blending

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#16 2007-08-31 00:42:01

beeloba
Member
Registered: 2006-08-18
Posts: 2735

Re: Tiffs with mask (alpha channel)

AlexandreJ wrote:

alpha is used to prevent CP in transparent zone
alpha is used during blending

Can you explain more about using this feature as a tourist remover, like me and my legs, or the other bothering object like the panohead or the panohead bracket!

Tnx

Last edited by beeloba (2007-08-31 00:42:27)

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#17 2007-08-31 08:44:57

[bo]
community overseer
From: Bulgaria
Registered: 2006-05-05
Posts: 1547

Re: Tiffs with mask (alpha channel)

Moving to Using APP, as this is not in the future any more smile

Just a quick question. Does this new feature has something to do with that topic? If I get this properly, now APP supports input files with alpha channel?


Some of my panoramas, posted in the Autopano Pro flickr group.

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#18 2007-08-31 08:49:38

AlexandreJ
Absolute beginner
From: Challes les eaux, France
Registered: 2005-11-14
Posts: 5174
Website

Re: Tiffs with mask (alpha channel)

How to use it :
- you paint transparency on areas where you don't want any CP to be created ( example : nadir shoot with panohead. Paint the panohead ).
- the zone where you have transparency will not be used in the blending stage ( on any blender ). So for example, if you want to remove some people, just paint them in the picture where there are and blend everything together. Be sure that you still have one picture left for any pixel. Instead, you'll get a hole.

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#19 2007-09-03 09:56:08

Valery
Member
Registered: 2006-11-01
Posts: 28

Re: Tiffs with mask (alpha channel)

Yesterday I tried to stitch 3 Targa images with Alpha and was surprised to find APP does not support Alpha in any form.  Why do I need it?  I made a 3D architectural model in 3DS Max which I had to put into a real pano. Alpha was needed in order to eliminate the nonexisting background. I've overcome the problem by filling the Alpha with white color and then deleting it. But it has many drawbacks (like parcial transparency). The time was pressing. Now I am going to try PTGui. And of course I am waiting for APP to include TARGA with Alpha channel in usable file formats.

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#20 2007-09-08 12:26:37

Mixed
Member
From: Bucharest
Registered: 2006-06-24
Posts: 26
Website

Re: Tiffs with mask (alpha channel)

Alexandre,

Thanks for including this in APP.
But I have troubles using it. Maybe you can do a quick tutorial with a few screenshots?

In PS I open a TIFF, switch to quickmask mode, paint the mask and then save. My tiff will have an transparency alpha channel in it. It's a nondistructive way, and my PTGui reads it fine. In APP I cannot open this file. So how do I use this feature in APP, I'm dying for it!! smile)

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#21 2007-09-11 09:55:17

[bo]
community overseer
From: Bulgaria
Registered: 2006-05-05
Posts: 1547

Re: Tiffs with mask (alpha channel)

Errrm, this functionality has not yet been released to the public. Wait for 1.4 RC1, available in a week or so.


Some of my panoramas, posted in the Autopano Pro flickr group.

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